Is the Apple Mac Studio really a PC killer? 5
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Mick

No, it’s not. Mac users will keep saying they are and PC’s will keep outselling them year on year.

Work with both but would never buy another Mac, keep your walled garden.

Alex Gollner ⧜

What’s the problem with being in a walled garden. Many Adobe-running PC users like staying in the NVIDIA walled garden 😉

uri bak

Macs based on M1 processors are good for video editing especially for those who work with the ProRes codec, beyond that there are other areas that Macs are lacking such as:
3D CGI, CAD, business management, medical research and of course gaming.
From the perspective of a user who needs all the options that a PC offers, I see no advantage to Macs in particular being expensive and non-upgradeable.

seabass

Perhaps I am confused but it is 2022, and it is relatively easy to research and learn:
#1) the difference between OEM workstations with all of their integration/customer service and tech support verses a DIY computer? It seems and is very disingenuous to compare a Mac Studio or MacBook Pro or Mac Pro to something other then a Lenovo, Boxx, HP, Dell, Origin, etc… all companies that actually offer similar integration, service and most importantly PRICES.
#2) Video/audio PROFESSIONALS work hourly so if you include their hourly rate to BUILDING a computer then building your own only works for startups and individuals who are starting their own project studio, anyone else will be under constant deadlines and will not have the time (should not have if they actually are pros) to select, order, put together, test, verify, install and get back running a potent DIY workstation.

#3) I went to PCPART PICKER and I tried to make workstation class computers at actual prices with actual available hardware, and IT WAS IMPOSSIBLE to match the prices you have listed. I am not doing this to prove you wrong in fact I have been trying to do this for months, BECAUSE I AM A PC USER! I cannot get a RADEON RX 6900 XT that is not at least $800 over MSRP, I cannot get INSTOCK a Nvidia RTX 3080Ti or 3090 TI that is not at least $1500 over the MSRP.

Perhaps this is different in the EU or in ASIA but in the US that is not possible.

SO this is my question for you:
A) Is this article click bait, a rehash of articles that are posted each and every time Apple has a new marketing hyperbole that is just set to automatic?
B) Do you really believe this is good journalism and that you need to expose some erroneous plot by Apple?

Because the reality is that this article neither proves that apple lied, I mean you are publishing benchmarks of unoptimized software running on a virtualized environment, ie rosetta 2.
This further proves the actual power of the M1 chips rather then their being just equal to the Intel/AMD offerings as these chips are able to emulate the X86 instruction set and still keep up with purpose built x86 chips. so imagine what will happen when they actually run code in their own instruction set.

You are also telling us that despite the current chip shortage which has gravely affected the prices of GPUS specifically you have access to equipment at MSRP which the manufacturers themselves have been clear would not happen until spring 2023 at the earliest. (especially because of the current cryptominer dominance of that market).

Again I am not writing this as an Apple chill, I currently run all self built hardware and run Windows and Linux. BUT I am a college professor, who specifically has the time to play around and research hardware, and I can tell you that when I was depending on my hardware for meeting tight deadline, I used HP kayak, Dell Precision and Apple Mac Pros for my work and did not risk my companies bottom line on self built computers.

Home

#1 it’s not a question of savvy it’s a question of time, it takes more then a few hours to set up and migrate a new computer to start with but when you account for also building it we are talking about a day of lost productivity at the minimum…

#2 quite a few export and import features of premiere pro require rosetta2 still (https://helpx.adobe.com/ca/premiere-pro/kb/premierepro-and-macos-big-sur.html)

#3 https://pcpartpicker.com/user/seabasstin/saved/rvjJnQ with nvidia 3090 closest I could get $5410 and it’s still missing parts to be a comparable build.

#4 https://pcpartpicker.com/user/seabasstin/saved/Nz66Q7 with radeon 6900xt again trying to get as close as possible to the studio = $3960… this is definitely a pretty good deal but still missing parts.

The problem is that when you make the system actually match what is included in the Mac studio the prices end up matching. Sure you could make cheaper pc’s but that is not the point is it? it needs to actually offer the same basic functionality ie, TB4, USB3.2, 10G ethernet etc…

Again I am not a mac user challenging the idea that you can build cheaper PCs. I myself am a wintel user.
I am only challenging blanket statements that claim that you can get a cheaper pc to match the performance, when the reality is that a bunch of self chosen and integrated parts do not amount to the same fit/finish/performance and efficacy of a purpose built workstation that competes with other purpose built workstations for professionals which are actually the same exact price range. (ie boxx, dell, hp, lenovo etc…)

uri bak

“The problem is that when you make the system actually match what is included in the Mac studio the prices end up matching. Sure you could make cheaper pc’s but that is not the point is it? it needs to actually offer the same basic functionality ie, TB4, USB3.2, 10G ethernet etc…”

If you have no idea about the huge variety of PC hardware options, you better not write this nonsense.

seabass

ok I know this is hard to understand but empty statements with your head in the sand is what caused so many film editors to loose their jobs when the ENG/broadcast world moved to Videotape and betacam SP ; and again how a bunch of BETACAM establisments lost again when the world transitioned to DWV and DWAs and digital production.

As a person who was working through both of these periods I am shocked to see how many people are still confused about when real tech change is afoot. I for one will not overlook this massive change as it portends to a real change in development strategies and hardware purchasing.

If you compared the relatively stalled performance gains in the X86 world between 2015 and today, especially in terms of performance per watts as opposed to just looking at performance, what Apple has released is set to really explode how we look at performance per dollar.

My current main workstation has a 1000W PSU and 30TB of raid storage 2TB system drive and 2 nvidia 2080ti with a 10Core intel CPU. My electric bill because of JUST this device is $50 more a month then without it (I know because i had to move it home from office for pandemic.)

This is INSANITY considering how much electricity cost have risen.
I wish I was kidding…

This is what I mean by a new benchmark. $50 a month is $600 a year. This is non trivial money and also doesn’t account for the cooling of the room I am in because of the hot computer.

This again is where apple but also any other manufacturer switching to performance per watt value as opposed to just performance per $ is going to with.

I think if professional video producers stick to the old ways and do not see the writing on the wall for what it is, they will again be left behind for relying on the hubris of believing that the current technological paradigms are not about to be seriously disrupted.

Here you can put a list of companies who are no longer with us, or are greatly reduced in size/scope of operation because of Hubris:

Grass Valley Group (GVG) (the old broadcast equipment company )
RCA
Zenith
Quantel (reduced in industry reach)
Ikegami (reduced in industry reach)
Hitachi (reduced in industry reach)
Kodak
Ampex
Newtek
Avid (reduced in industry reach)
Chyron
Discreet Logic (Bought by autodesk after being much weakened by hubris)
Nagra (lost the pro audio market )

in computing:
IBM (reduced in industry reach)
DEC
SUN
SGI
Intergraph
Hewlett Packard (split into multiple companies)
NOVELL

and so many more who have been reduced, consumed, or disappeared because they didn’t believe in the coming changes and adapt for it…

Sergio

We’re talking about edit suites that cost thousands a day and you’re worried about 50 bucks a month in energy bills???
LOL I’m sure your clients will understand why you need that extra week to deliver on inferior equipment because you’re saving “some bucks”!

Home

hahahaha, that is funny,.
If you think studio owners don’t pay attention to running costs, you obviously have no idea how margins work.
When you multiply that computer by the number of working seats, rendering machines etc, a studio HAS to consider these things when accounting for space cooling, for UPS’s backup power, for everything basically.
pretending that this is not the case just show that you are not actually in the industry…

uri bak

Ironically Mac users complain about the electricity bill when working on a PC, but have no problem paying for a monthly or annual warranty service beyond the basic Mac warranty (Apple Care) for one year only, compared to a 3-5 year warranty in the PC world.

Home

Mac users don’t complain about electricity bills, I have never ever heard of this… like never. It is not on their radar.
what is usually on their radar is battery life, overheating, etc just like on any other intel machine. M1 has just only appeared a year ago, it is not a real factor in discussions except in spaces like this.

#2 if you build your own pc you do not have a warranty except for your own.
if you are comparing a mac to a professional workstation service agreement from a major manufacturer the prices are EXACTLY the same and the service level is as professional.
please do not compare applecare to regular consumer pc warranty, or to bestbuy warranty it is not the same level of service.
compare it to HP/DELL/LENOVO professional warranty services which are an add on.

uri bak

HP / DELL / LENOVO give a minimum warranty of 3 years for the hardware.
Mac Studio If there is a hardware defect, for example and you do not have APPLE CARE beyond a year, you need to buy a new computer! very simple.

Sergio

First of all, practically every puget systems workstation explains that the best professional CPU performance does come from Ryzen powered rigs even if using NVIDIA GPUs.
Plus CPU and graphics aren’t the only reasons PCs simply are more scalable and upgradeable as you go. Memory and storage being half the price to DIY upgrade vs Genius Bar upgrades is one. Plus, service and labor is cheaper and more readily available for PCs.
You just are not going to find many people who would trade Windows 11/Linux for more expensive, tougher to upgrade/repair gear. Just not gonna happen no matter how much you got paid to muffle the “data”.

Marc B.

The Mac Studio offers a great value in a small package but everybody should have been weary of the Apple hype at the Peek Performance event. I prefer editing in Windows but was tired of the GPU situation and constant flux and misinfo about which chipset offered the best value. Another issue was the limiting of Thunderbolt ports on PC motherboards as well as having another big, bulky box in my office. After the M1 Max was released I really wanted one in a desktop and Apple delivered.

Marc B.

Thanks for the info. I was tracking those TB4 motherboard releases weekly before deciding on the Mac Studio.

Alex Gollner ⧜

Interesting. It is good that Puget Systems has a cross-platform benchmark for video based on Adobe Premiere.

They also have one for Resolve, but they don’t focus on it as much. They haven’t made that one cross-platform, the only results listed on Macs are Intel-based ones running Windows. In 2019 they wrote “Compatible with both Windows 10 only (MacOS and Linux support is planned for the future).”

If I was being cynical, I would suggest that Puget didn’t like the results for M1 Macs compared with PCs.

I hope that when/if Puget release a Resolve version of their benchmark, you’ll revisit this.

Also, last week Adobe updated After Effects and said the new version is much faster on Apple Silicon. Maybe speed has also improved for Adobe Premiere on Apple Silicon too. I’ll revisit the Apple Mac Studio benchmarks in the summer to see if the economics have changed.

PS: If you are a freelance video editor and you charge $350 a day for your work, and it takes three working days to make and keep your custom PC working for the first year of ownership, the combined cost of materials of your custom had better be more than $1,000 less than the comparable Apple Mac Studio.

Warren Heaton

As a creative who’s macOS based, I’m not sure I have much interest in anything Apple releases being a “PC killer” or not.

I just want to take it out of the box, plug it in, migrate or install software, and then get to work.

As far as performance goes, I need to know that it will run Photoshop, Illustrator, InDesign, Premiere Pro, After Effects, Character Animator, Audition, Media Encoder, and Cinema4D well – slower if my budget is limited or faster if not and I need to know that there’s a good option based on how light or heavy my projects might be.

The M1 based Macs tick those boxes and then some. Even the $600 entry level M1 Mac mini handles 2160 ProRes very, very well.

I’m accustomed to the small footprint, quiet operation, and know that when I’m ready to upgrade that my well cared for used Mac has trade-in value or will sell easily.

Sure, saving some money on a system that performs well is great, but picking out parts for myself that may or may not work together and have a different point of contact for warranty replacement is just not a priority in any way whatsoever. While the M1s are 1st generation machines and accordingly should be adopted with some caution, the list of non-native software is getting shorter and shorter and I suspect that the M1s will hold up as well and as long as iPhones and iPads that are well cared for with their biggest flaw being that one day they’ll be out-of-date due the current OS after seven years or so. And, hardware becoming legacy due to OS limitations isn’t unique to Apple.

Gregg McVicar

All I know is that we bought one of each (Max and Ultra) and they kick ass. Back to work!

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